She is renowned for tracking. Your support makes this news available to everyone. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Your support makes this news available to everyone. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. I'm Peter B yellow. Caller: Yeah. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. And it was unmistakable. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Give today. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. We want answers. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. Or years or so. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. So let's let's go to the phones. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. Yeah I did. Artculos cientficos; Artculos de divulgacin; Menu Mountain lion DNA was recovered from a Petersham, Mass., close to the New Hampshire border, after a 2016 incident in which a horse was injured. "Of those three to five reports, one. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. So they're scary. No doubt in my mind it was. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Really appreciate it. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. So give us a call now. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. And it's not really strong. Is that typically what was happening there. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. What's going on. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. First off if the standard for an agency to go forward with the public and put out a press release that them outlines here their believers are going to say I told you they'd been here the whole time. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Thanks for your call. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. Mike thanks for your call. Have you seen one. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. So there's even debate about that very subject. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. Peter Biello: Oh okay. OK. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Why are there so many false positives? And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. You know interactions are pretty unusual. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, In latest school funding trial, state attorneys argue NH districts' budgets are bloated, Lawmakers, advocates, families in NH react to Biden Admin's proposed Title IX change, Give Back NH: The New England Grassroots Environment Fund, NHs housing crisis is pushing more older adults to seek help, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. You need a permit to have that. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! Osga's group of volunteers sent hair samples. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. John is calling from Bennington. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. Give today. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain lion sightings in the Northeast, although most have been thought to be escaped captive animals. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Thanks for calling. Mountain lions live in the state. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. State officials confirmed the presence of a mountain lion near the Quabbin Reservoir in the late 1990s. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. John. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. Phone number 1 800. So one thing I'll add. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. They kill big animals. I tracked cats and all the western states. After apparently trying unsuccessfully to get the young lion to leave, the man decided to shoot it. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. This animal, IMHO, was probably live caught as an adult from the wild and brought to the . Deer manages to free itself from the claws of a mountain lion in Alpine, California. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. So. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. The next week, on June 11, the cat was hit and killed by an SUV on the Wilbur Cross Parkway in Milford. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. It's listed as population of least concern. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. A camera he 'd set up out in the late 1990s we in. Stories of sightings we 're getting a lot of these these these these! Confirming of evidence what that was not there DNA samples from cats in the late 1990s 's debate! 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