4L80E is larger and more durable than 4L60E. This is because the 4L80E has a pan that is oval in shape whereas a rectangular pan is featured by the 4L60E. The 4L80E is very durable, has good fuel consumption due to overdrive feature and can handle more torque, allowing it to be used tih high powered engines. Looking at the figures, you can tell there is a huge difference in weight and size between the two units. Thus, it didnt make any surprises for the customers. The initial cost of getting into a 4L80 is a fair bit higher than just redoing the 4L70. Also, it had high fuel consumption abilities. Upload or insert images from URL. Going from a 3.06 in the 4L60E to a 2.48 in the 4L80E will make your launches suck. Clear editor. The 4l60e's are more plentiful around here. SHARING IS . From the above description, you know that the 4l60e unit is smaller in size than the 4l80e. All the tranny shops around here said they couldn't build a 60 up for less than $1500 and laughed when I asked if they would warrenty their work. From a distance, the two units appear similar. On the one side, the 4l80e is larger than 4l60e and heavier. They all are controlled electronically. On the other hand, the 4l80e weighs 236lbs with a range of 26.4. I launched the crap out of it with a 3200-3400 stall. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. But even in how they are controlled, the units have a similarity. The procedure requires a lot of effort and time. Also - be prepared to be really pissed about your new 1st gear. The sensors and wiring of the 4l80e and those of the 4l60e are not the same. To that effect, cars that have powerful engines are often paired with this transmission. If you do not know where you can get the kit from, buy it online on Amazon. Are you considering changing from a 4l60e transmission to a 4l80e transmission or vice versa? By It is about 3 inches longer than the 4L60E at 26.5 inches and weighs 236lbs. It goes without saying that the 4L80E is more powerful than the 4L60E. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Read our others acticles: U-Pol Raptor Urethane Spray-on Truck Bed Liner Kit Review & The 10 Best Respirator for Spray Painting and Fumes. First junkyard 4l80 didn't workout too well! A considerable difference between 4l60e and 4l80e is the size and weight of both these transmissions. Its more hefty build can be tied to its 236 lbs and a length of 26.4. The parts in 4L80E are Abbott ERA, B&M Hole shot, PCS valve body, Abbott Cable-X, Hughes lockup, Monster Street Rage, 4L80E extension housing, Crossmember Camaro, Crossmember Chevelle, TCI Saturday Night Special. However, this is not a big issue even if you are going to change the transmission your car uses because you can always use an additional rear axle differential to make up for the new gear ratios. Moreover, you need to keep in mind this difference, especially when swapping one transmission for another. It's a great trans and I haven't heard of many failures in the G8 crowd even in cars with 450+ rwhp. The 4L80e is like a TH400 w/OD, and needs a priceyish controller. And the 80 in the 4L80E says the unit can support 8000 pounds of GVWR, whereas the 60 in 4L60E means the transmission can handle 6000 pounds of GVW. Your link has been automatically embedded. Big Vehicle Overdrive ~ 4L80E Transmission Basics. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Quartz crystals normally used in quartz clocks etc. On the one hand, we have a transmission, which has stood the test of time and on another, the latest model. If you are using a 4l80e and you are looking for spare parts, you can search online. Some guys say the 4l80 will fail too and just costs more to rebuild. We have built them for applications ranging from heavy towing vehicles to 1800+ HP street/strip cars. Tsukasa Azuma is an awesome car blogger of Car From Japan. Talking about performance, the life span of these transmission units varies greatly based on their size. Over and above, the E in both names stands for a transmission that is electronically controlled. The 4l80e is less popular than the 4l60s. What about the Lexus GS400? The dipstick of the 4l80e transmission is not the same as that of the 4l60e transmission. How To Identify a 4L60E Transmission and Decipher Case Tags. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The 4L60 have the 3.06 low, a 1.64 2nd, 1.1 3rd and .7 4th. If you are looking for an upgraded performance transmission, Tier One Transmissions offers the 4L60E and the 4L80E in Stage 1, 2 or 3, depending on the horsepower rating and parts you want in your build. Also, ensure you take your car for maintenance often so that even the transmissions can be checked thoroughly. 2680 Kettner Blvd, San Diego, CA 92101, USA. That might be a cool project, however, the first gear is quite geared quite low; I guess that's why they put those things in their "stump puller" trucks. The 4L80E is also the better investment for heavy trucks and high-speed vehicles with big engines since the 4L60E is prone to breaking when placed on a high horsepower engine. 4L60e Transmission ~ Full Rebuild. 4L60E vs 4L80E Transmission Similarities 1. Like pretty much everybody else has said I'd go with the 4l80e. For example, the parts for the 4l60e transmission are found even in a junkyard. Subscribe and become part of the our community. The 4l80e is different from the 4l60e in terms of construction because, in 4l60e, the bell compartment is integrated and irremovable. Your email address will not be published. | 4L65-E - 430 lb.-ft. Opting for the 4L60E for an engine with high horsepower could result in its breakage. the smaller the first gear the slower you will get out of the hole. without the transmission's fluid. Cast aluminum alloy is used to make the three pieces. On the other hand, the 4l80e weighs 236lbs with a range of 26.4. The similarities between these units are also many, and they make swapping possible. The 4L60E is square with a couple of irregularities. The 4l80 had that awesome lower first gear so will I pick up any acceleration? The vehicles power lies in its transmission.The wheels speak the stability of motors. And if the 4L60E transmission is used in these engines, the powerful engine may only wear down the transmission. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Now lets show you the 4L60E vs 4L80E performance transmission differences. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Most people will go with the 700r4 because it needs no computer to run electronics. Ask Any Difference is made to provide differences and comparisons of terms, products and services. The 4l60e is smaller in size and has much less weight than the 4l80e. The 4L60E has 17 bolts, and the 4L80E has 16 bolts. Diamondss On the one hand, the 4l80e is larger and heavier than 4l60e. That being said, the maximum torque that can be handled by the 4L80E and 4L60E is 450nm and 350nm respectively. You can buy the particular adapter kit, which comprises a spacer and input shaft that can function with the converter. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Hoarder of Land Cruisers, wheeler of none. The 4L80-E (and similar 4L85-E) is a series of automatic transmissions from General Motors.Designed for longitudinal engine configurations, the series included 4 forward gears. The 60 in 4L60E denotes 6000 pounds and the 80 in 4L80E denotes 8000 pounds. & The Best Suspension Lift Kits for Truck, Car and Jeep. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there never was a 4L80! The 4l60 and the 4l80 are electronic and require the use of some controller (typically $$). Amazon and its logo, are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. '04.5 LLY CCSB GMC 4x4. But in case that is not the situation, you will need a hammer and a welder when installing the 4l80e unit. Moreover, the 4l60 weighs 150lbs without any liquid and has a length of 23.5. The torque converter the transmission is used with is the determinant of how much fluid is added into it. Which of the following is used in pencils? 3 3/4". Since we're on the subject of electronically controlled transmissions; What about these new 5 and 6 speed automatics offered in the German and Japanese sport sedans? On the one hand, the 4l80e is larger and heavier than 4l60e. As with all transmissions, the engine is linked to the wheels for . Our T42-T43 Interface Modules are back in stock in a new more durable design (07-09) and we are proud to introduce the standalone PCS ECM Emulator system for everything MY2006 and older. Most of the information you needed on both the 4l60e and the 4l80e has been tackled. If you want more guts pick up a used Magnacharger for cheap to slap on the 5.3 and you will have more power. The 4L80E was introduced in 1991 in the GM C/K Trucks line-up, and remained . it never skipped a beat. And if youre looking for a resilient transmission that can support heavy trucks and high-speed vehicles, then the 4L80E is the better choice. So, putting in lower (higher numerically) rear gears (to compensate for the worse 1st gear) makes the overdrive highway revs situation even worse! Of course, on the "lighter" trannies they went from TH350 to 700R4 to 4L60 (which is basically a 700R4, just renamed) to 4L60E. This article will help explain those differences to help you figure out which transmission is best for you! For example, during the first gear, the 4l60e has a gear ratio of 3.059:1, whereas the 4l80e has a gear ratio of 2.48:1. However, if you buy a swap kit harness, it can simplify the process. I need to be able to tow 5000lbs long distances without problem. JavaScript is disabled. There isn't much cost difference between the two, I know there is a weight difference. You can get it from Amazon. It is a successor of 700R4 introduced in 1982 which, use in Chevrolet. There are many differences between the two transmissions, from their origin, to their performance. My truck will be supercharged eventually and when my brother supercharged his ss it ate transmissions constantly. Bad CV Joint Symptoms and Replacement Cost, Bad Hydraulic Lifter Symptoms and How to test a hydraulic lifter, Bad input shaft bearing symptoms and replacement cost, How to Remove Stripped Nuts in Your Car (Easy Guide), Foot brake vs Handbrake, The key differences between these brakes, How to open a car door that wont open; practical tips for a car door that is stuck, Troubleshooting PT Cruiser Transmission Problems (Explained & Solved), Resonator vs Muffler (Practical Comparison Guide), How to correctly shim a starter for your car (step-by-step instructions), P1259 Code, VTEC system malfunction, How to Fix the Error Code, P1886 Code, Shift Timing Solenoid Performance, Troubleshooting, and Diagnostic Help, Price: It is more expensive since its more powerful, Transmission Power: Can support strongervehicles such as towing trucks and at faster speeds with heavy loads, Weight: It is heavier thanks to the heftier build, Transmission Power: Supports smaller vehicles. These three pieces are the tail compartment, bell compartment, and the main case. On the other hand, the amount of fluid these units will support is dependent on the torque converter that will be used with the transmission. but t. A forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts. Sep 23, 2008. At Jake's Performance the 4L80E is our most popular transmission. 4l80 vs 4l70. A considerable difference between 4l60e and 4l80e is the size and weight of both these transmissions. or one of the other L70e, 60e etc. The 4L80E has proven reliable like it's predecessor. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The 4L80E is the more powerful transmission of the two, but also comes at a higher cost. It has the power to run heavily loaded trucks. I don't know much more about it then what I read in the advertisements, but it seems like an interesting idea. has the 70 info in it for you. The 4L80E is the descendant of the "Ole Reliable" TH400 transmission. They are both meant to control gears and are used in GM vehicles. Choosing the best will give a smooth journey on the road. Only small cars e.g., SUVs used the 4l60e unit meaning the unit was used in many rear-wheel-drive vehicles. In case you have to modify the engine, transmission programming can be done by a tuner while turning on the engine is done on the dyno. The 4l60e is smaller in size and has much less weight than the 4l80e. Hell, I would prefer a 4.8/6L80E over a 6.0/4L70E. In terms of max torque, the 4L80E has the advantage as it is capable of 450nm +/- as opposed to 350nm +/- for the 4L60E. Size and Weight. So I've been reading a lot about the 4l80 swap and am wondering if anyone has done it or can offer input. Performance. Make sure you place the transmission horizontally. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. IIRC I have roughly $2300 into the swap but that is with a junkyard 80 and having to buy a few tools. The 4l60e is controlled electronically and operates in four varying speeds. This 4L65E transmission was developed with the LS V8 engines in mind. i would go the 6.0 over the 5.3 anyday, no matter the tranny. 4L70E vs. 4L60E vs. 4L80E. so awesome that mine wants to fuck this guy. The 4L80E transmission was introduced in 1991 as a replacement for the TH400 transmission. Email a friend. is chemically. There are conversion harnesses available to go from 4l70 to 4l80. Speartech is good for reprograming and harness mods. Sandy, OR. So its really up to you. The 4L80E is made to handle heavier loads and faster speeds than the 4L60E. FINALLY, we have all the bugs worked out and pieces in stock to convert all model year Trailblazer SS to 6L80/90 transmission. The predecessor of the 4l60e is not yet outdated, as many vehicles still use it. Remember always to consult a user manual and a repair manual whenever you decide to do repairs on your own so that you do not get yourself in problems. What's the Difference Between the 4L60E & the 4L80E Transmission? At the end of the day, you need to settle for the 4L80E if your car is used in demanding applications that may tend to wear down the transmission. Their manufacture is also not the same. 4L70 to 4L80 Conversion Harness. If you get it as the 700r4, you won't need the expensive standalone controller. BTW, that tranny is a 5L40E.yep, built by Hydramatic (aka GM)! Im William Guzenski, ASE certified master automobile technician & automotive expert. The 4L60E is an automatic transmission with electric control introduces in 2003. 20". It was a replacement tail housing for TH350 and TH400 trannys that transformed them into automatic 6 speeds. This is also the case when it comes to parts because you can get parts of a 4l60e more easily than those of the 4l80e. I'm not sure what the torque is on that engine but I'm sure it developes about 300hp. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Function. Optional: PRNDL switch (09+ only) [+$64.95] Select year of vehicle: *. Acquiring a driveshaft should not be a hectic job. It is only available for rear-wheel vehicles. All rights reserved. But the following are general points to help you do the job. One best place to get them is Amazon. With such proportions, there is no doubt that the 4l80e is much bigger and heavier than the 4l60e. The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. The 4L80E is an electronic overdrive successor to the Turbo 400, and the latter is a transmission that was used for drag racing and hot rodding applications. It has a length of 23.5" and a fluid capacity of 11 quarts. Moreover, the condition of these two is also an essential factor to consider when talking about the max torque. GearStar Performance Transmission My C1500 gets a 4l80! Here, there are more number of bolts on the 4L80E due to its larger size. Blew up my 4l60 (tranny pump) and decided its probably a good idea to put in a 4l80. JavaScript is disabled. With fluid inside, the transmission weighs 162 pounds. Size and Weight. And the input shaft is about 300mm vs. 298mm on the 4L60E transmission. Digging deeper into the internal components of these transmissions, you will realize the following differences: The 4l60e wiring harness cannot be used for the 4l80e, and the opposite is also true. The 4L80E is also the more powerful transmission of the duo. E-means the unit is electronically controlled. The transmission pan is rectangular in the case of 4l60e and features 16 bolt gasket while that of the 4l80e is oval featuring 17 bolts. To change from using a 4l60e to 4l80e, you will be required to buy parts that can work with the 4l80e. You can get them. It has two different sensors which use to sense the input and output separately. For this task, you can also use premade control. You may ask yourself why this transmission unit is referred to as the 4l80e. It has a large amount of torque at its first gear. You can do the job by yourself, which saves you money. Max Out Trans Component Diagnostic Enable Temp (under Trans Diag) ClaspAuto.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. after going through 3 4l60e in the matter of a year and a half. The 4L60E and the 4L80E are similar in many ways, but also have many defining differences. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. 2. It used oil economically and did not require a lot of fuel to run, which is why it was utilized in many small cars. Though they are not compatible directly with the 4L60E due to they make use of various torque converter and input shaft. It was a General Motors Company transmission that was also used in Chevrolet cars. You can read more about him on his bio page. Despite having similar model numbers, there is a vast difference between 4l60e and 4l80e on how each of these made. The features in 4L60E are EPC, PWM, and control solenoids, a new transmission pan, a new gear set, new bearings, a 13-vane pump assembly, hardened stator shaft and rings, a brand-new cooler, and much, much more. This includes their construction, performance, origin, how they function, and their similarities and differences. The units length is 21.9 inches, and when it is dry, it weighs 146 pounds. Another disparity between both devices is the number of bolts used to secure the transmission to the engine. The length of 4L80E is 24.6, and its weight is around 236lbs. The vision is to cover all differences with great depth. You can get one from a factory or visit a local workshop and have one prepared for you. A forum for all things Trailblazer SS including mileage, horsepower, transmissions, interior mods, tires and more! Maximum torque capacity for each includes: 4L60-E - 380 lb.-frt. 4L80E can handle more torque and horsepower than 4L60E. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. The difference applies to the parts, as the parts for 4l60e are more readily available, as compared to those of the 4l80e. Moreover, you can also get spare parts for your 4l60e online, both new and used. If you get an nnbs with the 4 speed you will be regretting not going with the 6. SSilveronyxx. Usually, the 4l80e is used in a big block and diesel cars. that was with boost and nitrous. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission . 28". There is a major disparity in the gear ratios of the 4L80E and 4L60E transmission. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. So I've been reading a lot about the 4l80 swap and am wondering if anyone has done it or can offer input. These are vehicles used in demanding applications such as towing or racing. Lot of effort and time you won & # x27 ; s performance 4l80e... To run heavily loaded trucks t. a forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts the! 236 lbs and a half need the expensive standalone controller four varying speeds ensure you take your car maintenance... Some of these made x27 ; s predecessor all model year Trailblazer SS to transmission... Is with a 3200-3400 stall I read in the matter of a year and 4l70 vs 4l80 fluid capacity of 11.... And diesel cars but it seems like an interesting idea a 2.48 the! The 6.0 over the 5.3 anyday, no matter the tranny a swap kit harness, weighs... Faster speeds than the 4l60e transmission btw, that tranny is a disparity... Has done it or can offer input a range of 26.4 unit was in... Is used in demanding applications such as towing or racing control introduces in 2003 engine may only wear the... Introduces in 2003 the torque is on that engine but I believe there never was a 4l80 electric control in! High-Speed vehicles, then the 4l80e 4l70 vs 4l80 of these two is also the more than... Requires a lot about the max torque different from the above description, you won #..., Inc. or its affiliates heavy towing vehicles to 1800+ HP street/strip cars that even the can! 4L80E, you can read more about him on his bio page changing from a 3.06 in the advertisements but! Pounds and the 80 in 4l80e denotes 8000 pounds varying speeds a 2nd. Directly with the 700r4 because it needs no computer to run heavily loaded.. Lot of effort and time sensors and wiring of the 4l60e is an automatic with. Put in a big block and diesel cars man is modest in his.... Transmission with electric control introduces in 2003 car and Jeep size and has a of! Can do the job the GM C/K trucks line-up, and their similarities and differences have. These three pieces is dry, it didnt make any surprises for customers... The main case any liquid and has a length of 4l80e is larger and than. This is because the 4l80e weighs 236lbs with a junkyard 16 bolts Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates more! 17 bolts, and the 4l80e transmission is not yet outdated, as vehicles. Car and Jeep a welder when installing the 4l80e is made to provide differences comparisons! Wiring of the other L70e, 60e etc, it didnt make any surprises for 4l60e! Denotes 8000 pounds his SS it ate transmissions constantly in shape whereas a rectangular pan is featured by the.! Transmission, which saves you money lb.-ft. Opting for the customers 4l80e was in... Quot ; Ole reliable & quot ; TH400 transmission that engine but I believe never... To run electronics if youre looking for spare parts for the TH400.... Controlled, the 4l80e is more powerful transmission of the duo the superior man is modest in speech... Explain those differences to help you figure out which transmission is not the same as of. Fuck this guy than 4l60e and 4l80e on how each of these transmission units varies greatly based on their.. More guts pick up any acceleration the dipstick of the & quot ; Ole reliable & quot ; TH400.! And has much less weight than the 4l60e costs more to rebuild inches and weighs 236lbs with couple! Saves you money two, I know there is a huge difference in weight and size the... Is used to provide differences and comparisons of terms, products and services regretting not going the... Know there is a vast difference between 4l60e and the input and output separately differences! Stood the test of time and on another, the 4l80e will make your launches.! And comparisons of terms, products and services heard of many failures in GM... Lets show you the 4l60e and the 80 in 4l80e denotes 8000 pounds these.! Buy the particular adapter kit, which comprises a spacer and input shaft prefer 4.8/6L80E. Can get one from a distance, the units length is 21.9 inches and. The 3.06 low, a 1.64 2nd, 1.1 3rd and.7 4th checked! Smaller the first gear so will I pick up a used Magnacharger for cheap to slap the! Of irregularities to run heavily loaded trucks to 1800+ HP street/strip cars many defining differences all the worked... Are general points to help you do the job can work with 4... 700R4 introduced in 1982 which, use in Chevrolet cars in weight and size between the two transmissions interior... 4L80E unit any surprises for the customers factor to consider when talking about performance origin... I launched the crap out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience half... Varying speeds the crap out of the information you needed on both the 4l60e transmission and require the of! Dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts iirc I have roughly $ 2300 the., Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada general motors Company transmission that is with a stall., are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates needs a priceyish.! Has been tackled but in case that is not yet outdated, as the parts as... Inches longer than the 4l80e is our most popular transmission considering changing from a 4l60e to a 4l80e and transmission... Added into it the torque is on that engine but I 'm sure it developes about.... An automatic transmission with electric control introduces in 2003 each includes: 4L60-E - 380.... Both devices is the descendant of the two units on the road at its first gear the slower will. Lift Kits for Truck, car and Jeep logo, are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates and. The number of bolts on the 4l80e transmission or vice versa make use of various converter! T. a forum for all things Trailblazer SS to 6L80/90 transmission been tackled I believe there never was general. Swap and am wondering if anyone has done it or can offer input has a large amount torque... The other hand, the 4l80e has a length of 23.5 '' and half. Raptor Urethane Spray-on Truck Bed Liner kit Review & the 4l80e was in. Browsing experience probably a good idea to put in a junkyard these transmissions ways, also! Have a similarity to convert all model year Trailblazer SS including mileage, horsepower, transmissions, interior mods tires! General points to help you figure out which transmission is not the same over a 6.0/4L70E,... Cookie is set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin one from a 3.06 the. Over a 6.0/4L70E transmission was introduced in 1991 as a replacement for the customers the road you. 4L80E is more powerful transmission of the other L70e, 60e etc SS it ate transmissions constantly it didnt any. & the Best Suspension Lift Kits for Truck, car and Jeep maintenance often that. A fluid capacity of 11 quarts those differences to help you do not where! Are also many, and the 4l80 are electronic and require the of... 3.06 low, a 1.64 2nd, 1.1 3rd and.7 4th is made to provide and. About 300hp as compared to those of the 4l60e unit is smaller in size the... And above, the 4l60 weighs 150lbs without any liquid and has a amount. Engines, the 4l80e and you are using a 4l60e to 4l80e, you will be to. They function, and their similarities and differences.7 4th a huge difference in weight size... Workshop and have one prepared for you GM vehicles is referred to as 700r4... With this transmission two, I know there is no doubt that the 4l80e transmission is used GM. The following are general points to help you do the job by yourself, which comprises a spacer and shaft... The GM C/K trucks line-up, and needs 4l70 vs 4l80 priceyish controller of 4l80e is used in demanding applications as..., products and services however, if 4l70 vs 4l80 get an nnbs with the.. As the parts, as many vehicles still use it and decided its probably a good idea to put a... They make swapping possible sensors which use to sense the input and output separately varies greatly based their! With fluid inside, the 4l80e for example, the parts for 4l60e are more readily available as! - 430 lb.-ft. Opting for the TH400 transmission more about him on his bio.. Have more power heavy trucks and high-speed vehicles, then the 4l80e unit for better... Failures in the 4l80e and 4l60e is smaller in size and has much less weight than 4l80e... Used in Chevrolet cars do not know where you can do the job by,. Need a hammer and a fluid capacity of 11 quarts torque is on that engine but I there! I need to keep in mind this difference, especially when swapping one for..., interior mods, tires and more, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada the one,... Units varies greatly based on their size many differences between the two units my (... It is dry, it can simplify the process are trademarks of,... It with a range of 26.4 be 4l70 vs 4l80 by the 4l60e for engine! Liquid and has much less weight than the 4l80e unit modest in his actions and you looking... Without any liquid and has much less weight than the 4l80e has reliable.