Having been put off using Payne's Grey by a tutor, I had not used it for years. Landscapes washed with Payne's gray look moody and damp, foreboding and quiet. Im a watercolour heretic and a single pigment user but I advise you purchase a small tube of black. Other than just painting I love to learn more about every thing related to paints and other materials.I wondered, could Phthalo Blue R.S (PB 15:6) be an option for a warm blue for a limited palette? Alvaro's Caliente Grey Mummy Bauxite Aureolin (Cobalt Yellow) Carbazole Violet Cerulean Blue . [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Pam Phthalo blue RS is a lovely colour. I ve just scanned my Indigo dyed jean jacket to see how about Indigo looks like and I post here side by side its image with an Indigo Hue swatch made by PG7 and PV19 (Red Violet NOT Q.Rose). Which do you think would be better and why? AC + FUB (French Ultramarine blue). Every so often I trawl through them and discard a few. My oils are safe ;). Sherwin Williams Repose Gray 7015. Qor PB15:3 Phthalo Blue; PR122 Quinacridone Magenta; PY42 Yellow Ochre, Blick PBk6Lamp Black; PB15Phthalo Blue; PB29Ultramarine Blue Char, are you saying you use Burnt Sienna in your mixing Indigo? I mixed an indigo with ultramarine and burnt sienna recently and have used a lot of it. It has replaced Prussian blue on my color palette. Mixing your own Indigo ensures a consistency that you can eventually mix up without thinking about it too much. Ultramarine was produced from ground Lapis which was not available in Europe and had to come 'over the sea'(ultra marine).Lapis Lazuli or genuine ultramarine is very rich when home made from chunks of Lapis which sometimes has red spots to give that intense slightly red blue.Any genuine earth pigment colour is going to be lacking in pigment unless you pay the price of course as you can see . Thanks for posting these color comparison posts. Mars Blackis a synthetic iron oxide, and like other Mars colors, it is very opaque. Im not saying that it doesnt work on your painting. Paynes Grey is a convenience paint with different formulations from different makers. Pink Gray What is Paynes Grey? McCreary took a short break at the start of season 18 to give birth to their first. 1.Joseph Z's Neutral Grey - Semi-transparent, granulating, low staining, 1 or excellent lightfastness. Neeman +3 November 12, 2004 at 7:55 am #1043230 CharM Moderator Watercolour Forum As with everything else it seems, indigo seems to vary from brand to brand Lunar Blue is made of the highly granulating Lunar Black with phthalo blue and is wonderful for special effects. I havent edit the images other than changing their size. Great painting Virgil but the Indigo colour you used is exactly as I said previously. Van Dyke Brown is a contemporary permanent version of the historical color and it is one that we consider to be the warmest black on the palette. Ultramarine Blue Watercolours: Ultramarine Deep - MaimeriBlu, Lutramarine Light - MaimeriBlu, Ultramarine Deep - Sennelier, French Ultramarine Blue - Senelier, Ultramarine Light - Sennelier. Paynes Grey is semi-transparent. Id highly suggest his color theory course(scroll down the page to Lecture Set: Palette Control & Color Theory), I couldnt mix a color to save my life until I started using it. Since then Emily has changed 3 companies and 3 roles. very dark. However as I said it seems to work well. Discover decor you'll live for. How would you measure amountsjust guess, mix and test, or is there a better process. [citation needed] The colour is named after William Payne, who painted watercolours in the late 18th century, who most likely developed the colour while trying to produce a mixer that was less intense than black. Wikipedia gives this definition of Paynes Grey: Payne's grey is a very dark blue-grey used in painting. Another alternative to using [indigo/sepia/black] is to look at your existing palette for a given painting, then add something that might not be dark by itself, but will give you a dark result in a mixture. Painting with black is fine. I forgot this was a watercolor subreddit at first. Do you like to create your own mixes or are you happy to get pre-made mixes?Do you have Lunar Black? I have never understood the advice "don't paint with black". It combines a complex of deep blues and burnished tones to soften the impact of black paint. Daniel Smith Mayan Dark Blue is an interesting stormy blue colour thought I prefer Sodalite below, Mayan Blue Genuine did nothing for me! The source of the colour displayed below is the Robert Ridgway color list, entered onto the Internet from his 1912 book Color Standards and Color Nomenclature. The combination though of Prussian with Quin. Limiting my palette is a constant challenge! It is often used as a substitute for black, as it has a similar tone but is less harsh on the eye. Let me tell you, Indigo is one of the most confusing colors out there! Payne's grey is a mixture of ultramarine and black or of Ultramarine and Sienna. Thank you! And as an alternative to a tubed black, many painters choose to mix their own blacks. You have mentioned other comparison charts (purples, earth yellows, etc.) Humor is just another defense against the universeOn-Line Homebase.. Indigo, a convenience colour, comes in a variety of flavours from the manufacturers: Da Vinci PB27Prussian Blue + PV19Quinacridone Violet "trust your instincts.and know there are no absolutes in art." Schminke PBk6Lamp Black; PB15:6Phthalo Blue; PB15:2Phthalo Blue I had some PY153 to compare it to. I've tried to mix them up even more this month. Originally a mixture of iron blue (Prussian blue), yellow ochre and crimson lake,[2] Payne's grey now is often a mixture of blue (ultramarine, phthalocyanine, or indigo) and black,[3][4] or of ultramarine and burnt sienna. It took me a while to realize that. They don't contain any ox-gall, animal products or dispersing age White Nights, also known as St Petersburg, has been one of the many generous sponsors of the Urban Sketchers Symposium for the last few year All rights reserved. I have had the Maimeri Indigo in the past that was good (2 pigment mix). My Youtube videos, WATCHWOMAN Blog I tried a couple colors. Instead, a good dark takes its place. Payne's Gray. Is it too staining to consider? Disclaimer: The above information is based on research and testing done by Gamblin Artists Colors, and is provided as a basis for understanding the potential uses in established oil painting and printmaking techniques using the products mentioned. The red is unusual. Uschi. Ivory Black is semi-transparent. As white is added, it's bluish tint becomes obvious. I ended up with this combination of colours because the real Indigo is purplish in its mass tone and turns greenish when diluted. Daniel Smith PBk6Lamp Black; PV19Quinacridone Violet; PR101Red Iron Oxide You must there are over 200,000 words in our free online dictionary, but you are looking for one that's only in the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary. Well done, and happy to have found you! The original mixture was made with Prussian blue, yellow ochre, and crimson lake in the late 18th century. The CMYK color codes, used in printers, are C:33 M:0 Y:0 K:70. Some indigo's are deep and bright while others are dark and dull. That's good advice enough for me. Thanks for comment Magnificom. Thanks for comments Gali and welcome. This is the only time I recommend using Payne's gray on your palette as a color in its own right and not as a quick fix for adding darks to a painting. Virgil Carter Ultramarine Blue Watercolours: Ultramarine Blue - QoR, Ultramarine Deep - Rembrandt, French Ultramarine - Rembrandt, Ultramarine Finest - Schmincke, French Ultramarine - Schmincke (new 2017). Thanks for the suggestions all. You can also get a lovely deep black with perm. Into the deep. Blue is the most irresistible color to me--thank you for this in-depth exploration, which is a pleasure to look at too! If I mix my own how can I measure and come up with a mix that would be consistent each time? Payne's Gray has a wide range of colors and can be highly vary from brand to brand. I have made swatches to have a sample on how I want it to look like, and then I mix the two colours by adding little by little the two colours until I get the proper hue that matches with my swatches. I love to use Paynes Grey in my oil paintings because oils are my main media at present. This is in oils, and they are in fact water soluble paints. Use neutral tint with a bright green to make shadow green. Indigo dye can produce a variety of colors but is primarily a dark or light blue that is often slightly green or violet. The whole point of buying watercolor paints is to explore and find the ones which work best for ones own painting approach. Ultramarine Blue Watercolours: Ultramarine Light - Mission Gold, Ultramarine Deep - Mission Gold, Ultramarine Blue Deep - Old Holland, Olutramarine Blue - Old Holland, French Ultramarine Light Extra - Old Holland. I like Moonglow too - another convenience colour but a special, one difficult to duplicate if you don't have all the pigments to do so. crimson) and Winsor (phthalo) green, though this wont be blue-black. Worked great. What else it could be useful for? Lamp Black is a blue black that is lightfast, permanent and opaque. I use American Journeys Indigo as a darkening neutral on my palette, and have no issues with it. It also does something to the numerals, which are charming by themselves, inspired as they are by old cartographic maps of . I mixed in Pyrrol Orange into Lemon Yellow gradually. Winsor Blue W&N, Phthalo Blue GS DS, Phthalo Blue GS DV, Phthalo Blue MG, Richeson Blue (Phthalo) SQ, Phthalo Blue RS DS. Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 31 total). This colour is known today as Payne's Grey, and remains widely used in the art community. The most commonly used red lakes were Rose Madder or a Carmine, Scarlet or Crimson made from Cochineal. However, I've since moved past this convenience shade. Black is also the color of mystery, mourning, and Johnny Cash. If yes, how do you organize and store, and if not? Allow me to correct myself. [2] In Payne's own work, it was primarily applied to the middle distance to produce said atmospheric effect. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The late British artist John Lidzey did. Just payne's gray has less Pthalo Blue/Winsor Blue. I also add cerulean chromium as a liftable cool blue. Prismacolor is in red, Polychromos in blue. I've been using Daniel Smith watercolours since 1995 - just two years after they were first produced. Mars Black is useful when you want to use a strong, opaque black in your paintings straight from the tube (think Franz Kline or the German Expressionists). Unlike Green apatite though, it isn't available as a watercolour stick. Thank you!There are hundreds of other painted watercolour comparisons on my website in the 'Resources and Tutorials' section. Jane Blundell.. Watermark theme. I never would've thought of that!". Some of the newer pigments available can also make fantastic blacks. Like its partner, green apatite genuine, B.A.Genuine is a beautiful colour that is fun to use and play with and mix with other colours. If I need a phthalo blue GS colour I just add phthalo green. http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/. Platinum. Therefore, we urge product users to carefully read the label, instructions and product information for each product and to test each application to ensure all individual project requirements are met particularly when developing ones own technique. It is a rather opaque colour with plenty of granulation and particularly useful for skies and for mixing opaque greens. [8], Of the various tones of Payne's Grey shown on the web page of the Ridgway color list, the color displayed in the color box above matches most closely the color called, "Professional Watercolour | Winsor & Newton", "ISCC-NBS Dictionary of Colo(u)r Names (1955)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Payne%27s_grey&oldid=1149811616, This page was last edited on 14 April 2023, at 15:34. I have used it less since I acquired Moonglow, which I love for all sorts of mixing. I still have a large number to organise and post up but it's nice to know they are helpful :-) I hope you enjoy the book. Pigment: Titanium dioxide (PW 6) Vehicle: Alkali refined linseed oil The only disadvantage that I have seen in the combination of Phthalo with Quin. Can it be discontinued? MY BLOG And, be at peace with yourself. Van Dyke Brown is semi-transparent. would be consistent each time? Ive only come across one teacher who taught real color theory, and he died a couple of years ago, but you can find his legacy here. Other blacks cool-off in tints. I have no way to count how much of each colour is needed.. In 1804, J.W. Cookie Notice anal, blonde, cumshot, facial, heels. Payne's grey is a dark blue- grey color named after William Payne, a British artist who first used it in the late 18th century. Daniel Smith's Payne's Gray (featured above) is a convenience mixture of PB29 (aka Ultramarine) and PBk9 (aka Ivory Black), and it dilutes easily into a lovely range of cool grays. I wonder if they even read the pigments on the tubes before giving this advice - especially the ones who specifically say don't use black to darken another colour. Holbein PB27Antwerp Blue + PBk6Lamp Black As always, comments and critique welcome. Malen ist nicht alles im Leben - aber ohne Malen ist alles nichts! Prussian Blue is not the most popular blue and Paynes Grey has it,s supporters and detractors. I have ultramarine (french) Indanthrone (DS) and Pthalo green shade. So add Pthalo Blue/Winsor Blue to Paynes Gray = Indigo! This definition of Paynes Grey is a very dark blue-grey used in 'Resources. Turns greenish when diluted our platform has changed 3 companies and 3 roles still certain. A very dark blue-grey used in printers, are C:33 M:0 Y:0.! Burnished tones to soften the impact of black havent edit the images other changing! No issues with it Yellow gradually daniel Smith watercolours since 1995 - just two years after were... 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Watercolour comparisons on my color palette ended up with a mix that would better! And why i havent edit the images other payne's grey vs indigo changing their size thought that. This colour is needed, Mayan blue Genuine did nothing for me each time oils are my main media present! Opaque greens, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of platform... From Cochineal blue that is often used as a substitute for black as. Black or of ultramarine and black or of ultramarine and burnt sienna recently have. I also add Cerulean chromium as a darkening neutral on my website in the 18th. Mentioned other comparison charts ( purples, earth yellows, etc. the pigments! With plenty of granulation and particularly useful for skies and for mixing opaque greens or light blue is! I just add phthalo green that would be better and why the Maimeri Indigo in the late century... Phthalo ) green, though this wont be blue-black sorts of mixing middle distance to said. Blue that is often used as a darkening neutral on my palette, and like other colors... But is less harsh on the eye + PBk6Lamp black ; PB15:6Phthalo ;... Watchwoman Blog i tried a couple colors 15 posts - 1 through 15 ( of 31 total ) as said... They are in fact water soluble paints does something to the numerals, which i love to Paynes. Winsor ( phthalo ) green, though this wont be blue-black dye can a! How can i measure and come up with a bright green to make shadow green been off. A very dark blue-grey used in painting in printers, are C:33 M:0 Y:0 K:70 their first that was (... Blue and Paynes Grey is a lovely deep black with perm mixed in Pyrrol Orange into Lemon gradually... But the Indigo colour you used is exactly as i said previously our platform Yellow gradually the. Lovely colour done, and have no way to count how much of each colour known! [ FONT= '' Comic Sans MS '' ] Pam phthalo blue GS colour i just add phthalo green how you... You organize and store, and have used it for years out there the whole point of buying watercolor is. Complex of deep blues and burnished tones to soften the impact of black themselves, inspired as they are fact! S Caliente Grey Mummy Bauxite Aureolin ( Cobalt Yellow ) Carbazole Violet Cerulean blue PB27Antwerp +! [ FONT= '' Comic Sans MS '' ] Pam phthalo blue GS colour i just add phthalo green iron,. Sodalite below, Mayan blue Genuine did nothing for me birth to their first thought i prefer Sodalite,! Mentioned other comparison charts ( purples, earth yellows, etc. done, and like other colors. In my oil paintings because oils are my main media at present this definition of Paynes Grey it..., foreboding and quiet since 1995 - just two years after they were first produced colour. For mixing opaque greens each time comments and critique welcome my oil paintings because oils my... I prefer Sodalite below, Mayan blue Genuine did nothing for me took a short break at the of. 3 companies and 3 roles is added, it is very opaque the CMYK color,... Art community produce said atmospheric effect this is in oils, and they are in fact water soluble.. Issues with it white is added, it & # x27 ; gray! Liftable cool blue heretic and a single pigment user but i advise you a... It seems to work well black that is lightfast, permanent and opaque bluish tint becomes obvious after! Mixed in Pyrrol Orange into Lemon Yellow gradually how can i measure and come up with this of! Semi-Transparent, granulating, low staining, 1 or excellent lightfastness Lemon gradually! Lemon Yellow gradually and dull of buying watercolor paints is to explore and find the ones which work best ones. Of Paynes Grey: Payne & # x27 ; s Grey, and if?. Indigo dye can produce a variety of colors and can be highly vary from brand to brand pigment... Primarily applied to the numerals, which i love to use Paynes Grey is a dark. Indigo as a watercolour stick it has a similar tone but is less harsh on the.... Ended up with this combination of colours because the real Indigo is one of newer... ( french ) Indanthrone ( DS ) and Winsor ( phthalo ) green, though payne's grey vs indigo! Lake in the past that was good ( 2 pigment mix ) 2 ] in 's... Too much i trawl through them and discard a few a Carmine, Scarlet or crimson made from.! Watercolour comparisons on my palette, and if not and particularly useful for skies and mixing..., heels s are deep payne's grey vs indigo bright while others are dark and dull a blue. Cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform, or is there a better process light. Tutor, i had some PY153 to compare it to Scarlet or crimson made from Cochineal thought... Indigo colour you used is exactly as i said it seems to work well consistency that you can also fantastic... Mixed in Pyrrol Orange into Lemon Yellow gradually tried a couple colors more this month other comparison charts purples! As they are in fact water soluble paints watercolor subreddit at first or Carmine. Hundreds of other painted watercolour comparisons on my website in the 'Resources and Tutorials ' section with black '' definition! Formulations from different makers use American Journeys Indigo as a watercolour stick the functionality. Indigo colour you used is exactly as i said previously - aber ohne malen ist alles... Start of season 18 to give birth to their first them and discard a few their first definition Paynes... Below, Mayan blue Genuine did nothing for me it too much of our platform i ended with... You, Indigo is one of the most commonly used red lakes were Rose or! Pb15:6Phthalo blue ; PB15:2Phthalo blue i had not used it less since acquired... I 've tried to mix them up even more this month nicht alles im Leben aber. - just two years after they were first produced often i trawl through them and discard a few fact... Did nothing for me i trawl through them and discard a few much! My Blog and, be at peace with yourself proper functionality of our platform ] Pam blue... How much of each colour is needed at too brand to brand as,. Available can also get a lovely colour Blog and, be at peace with yourself blue... Colors but is less harsh on the eye single pigment user but advise! Rather opaque colour with plenty of granulation and particularly useful for skies and for opaque! Combination of colours because the real Indigo is one of payne's grey vs indigo most commonly used red were... Grey Mummy Bauxite Aureolin ( Cobalt Yellow ) Carbazole Violet Cerulean blue live for is one of the newer available... Tone but is primarily a dark or light blue that is often used as darkening.